Tehseen:
Dear Kumar...You are entitled to your own views,opinions,but at the same time you have to make sure that you know the basics, you know the facts, you know the root casue of the problems and not rely solely on corrupted media,and off the sources that have vested interests,As far as kashmir is concerned it was never a part of india geographically,historically,culturally and that is the reason why Jawaharlal Nehru promised infront of the whole world to let kashmiri people decide there fate,let a referendum be held under the charter of UN and people be given the basic right of self to determination and that is what you call a democracy.Until now the basic right has been denied to kashmiri people.Let me impress you a very important fact that if given the right to self determination and in any eventuality people choose India as their soveriegn country no one will oppose that and so should respect the right to self determination.
Regarding Kashmiri hindus,christians,sikhs same should apply as in any case of plebisite.For your information Kashmir is known for its traditional religious harmony and tolerance.It was the then Goernor of kashmir Jagmohan who under a great conspiracy drove Kashmiri pandits out of kashmir.To your surprise no other minority migrated from kashmir when the moment started way back in 1989.Sikhs and even some population of pandits stayed back during the troubled times and they were looked after more then their muslim fellow bretherns.History bears witness to the fact that they too want Independence from India given the right to self detemination as this was evident during the recent march in which Sikhs and Pandits led seperate processions.
Ironically the media didnt allowed that part to be exposed to the rest of India keeping their old traditional stance of comunalism alive in kashmir.80000 thousand muslims kiled,7 thousand custodial disappearences,4 thousand rapes, 290 pandits killed and 110 sikhs killed over the period of time (Indian forces) ref:(human rights commision .j&k ref192-void60). Dear Kumar the biggest problem with Indian population is that they percieve every kashmiri advocating the cause to be a part of Pakistan which is utterly incorrect.We dont want to be a part of Pakistan neither would we allow Indians to be controlling our lives.Recent processions bear testament to the fact how darely all kashmiris want independence not pakistan.
Mahatma Gandhi whom I adore,admire not because he fought with Britishers for his Independence but because of his Ideology which is still surviving in this cruel corporate world and that is right to self determination, right to choose,right to live in honour,dignity. As far as the unfortunate recent bombings in delhi is concerned Kashmir is not even remotely associated.We strongly condemn the brute voilence,even kashmiri indegineous armed leaders strongly condemned the killings.(The killings are more to be blamed to the Indian politicians who are trying to take advantage of the situation and get their vote banks for which BJP stands for).Kashmiri moment is indegenious,going on from 1947.Dear Kumar we have been supressed from last 63 years,our paradise has been torn apart just for the reason which Mahatma Gandhi fought for,Bhagat singh laid his life for.
Until 1989 our movement was non voilent and to higlight the issue internationally there was a armed struggle for a short period of time and now you see the non voilent movement again taking its course of action and the gravity is such that noted Indian citizens arundhati roy who happend to be in Kashmir during the recent protest was compelled to say that India should give kashmir its much desired,and deserved freedom.Vir sanghvi.Krishn Ayar advocated the cause. My dear friend its not about superpower ,neither it is about Bulochistan, it is about the basic human rights that is right to self determination which we have been promised by indian constituion,UN resolutions and of which article 370 is a part off. As far as Indian army is concerned they dont have any right to kill innocent childrens,rape women,kill unarmed protesters just for the sake of vengeance that their colleague who is involved in mass murder has meted his own fate.What goes around comes around.They are supposed to safeguard the precious innocent human life not take a innocent human life. As far as as economic stabilty is concerned,Dear kumar we are self sufficient.80% of our electricy generated within the state is imported to norther indian catering 65% of their electricty needs and still we are plundered in to a well planned darkness Our agriculture is selff sustainible,our tourism industry alone can feed every kashmiri for over a century,our animal husbandary is one of the best industries provided the industry is nurtured, looked after properly.
Handicraft skills,kashmir art is unmatched and unparalled and has won accolades internationally, and if you still feel that we can't sustain then I am afraid you have to live in kashmir for a while and try yourself the potential of our products.There are number of small sized soveriegn countires in the world who have less resources then ours and still enjoy the benfits of their GDP'''s and are forces to be reckoned. Against this backdrop I would like to ask you just one simple question and analyze crtically In this age and time do you think so called biggest democracy in the world can deny people from exercising their basic right to self determination? and also How can you jusitfy the fact that Kashmir is an integral part of india when United Nations has passed a Resoultion to hold a free and fair plebiste in kashmir according to wishes ad aspirations of people of kashmir and has explicitly stated kashmir as a disputed region? Dear Kumar the onus is on to you for being a responsible citizen of india to decide and introspect and look in to the facts,check the history and then conclude and label kashmiris as terrorist. Allah says that the blood of a human being is as sacred as the wall of Kabba and whoever saves a human life has saed the whole mankind and whoever takes a human life has killed the whole mankind I hope this should satisfy you and explain to you that we dont believe in blood sheds. Due to plausity of time I must conclude here By the way I am 30 years old running a small web designing/software company in London.
Regards Tehseen
Me :
Dear Tehseen,
I am not that insensible to take whatever that is thrown at me by the Indian media, which at large has become nothing but a news churning out machine lacking in integrity, having said that I also cannot deny the fact that there are some news agencies in India which still functions true to the principles of journalism and their stance on every issue not just on Kashmir issue vindicates their worthiness and venerability.
I am not that insensible to take whatever that is thrown at me by the Indian media, which at large has become nothing but a news churning out machine lacking in integrity, having said that I also cannot deny the fact that there are some news agencies in India which still functions true to the principles of journalism and their stance on every issue not just on Kashmir issue vindicates their worthiness and venerability.
As for your claim that Kashmir was never a part of India historically, geographically, culturally is so untrue in many ways, but it might sound true if certain facts are to be ignored conveniently. Everyone knows the fact that India as a nation came into existence in 1947, but the idea of Indian subcontinent existed in the peoples mind even before the boundary was conceived and that idea was of a much larger region than what we see as India now. Before 1947 the whole of south Asia was considered as India which was a region and not a nation. If anyone says that Kashmir has always been a part of India it is not a claim based on the physical boundary or it isn’t some political statement rather it is one of cultural ties. Entire Indian sub-continent is culturally interlinked. When I say they are culturally interlinked I don’t mean by a uniform culture, That certainly does not exist within India or within the other states too. But in the sense of a cultural continuum.
So coming back to the present day Kashmir and the dispute related to it, the Kashmir dispute is the result of post partition geo political event and everyone knows it has nothing to do with the medieval or early history of that region. In that way what you are saying might be true, the Kashmir dispute has nothing to do with Indian history or culture but the Kashmir as a region has everything to do with India historically, geographically and culturally so much so that the very name “Kashmir” is a Sanskrit word.
It is a known fact that Repealed by brutality of Pakistani forces Raja Hari singh the then ruler of sovereign state of Kashmir signed the accession treaty on 26th October 1947 and the largest party in Kashmir of that time, the National Conference under Sheikh Abdullah, ratified the accession-pact when the Pakistani guerilla’s invaded Kashmir. India was very much in welcome of Raja Hari singh’s decision to maintain kashmir as an independent state, before the Pakistanis invaded the valley. If not for the Nehru’s doltishness, there wouldn’t have been any Kashmir dispute or insurgency. The Indian army had just asked for 48 hours to flush out the Pakistanis out of Kashmir region but Nehru chose to go to UN to complain about the Pakistani invasion in Kashmir and to bring about a ceasefire in the region, he moved against the will of his own cabinet and army and induced an UN mandate favoring Pakistan which is the root cause of all the problems in Kashmir, POK, (Pakistan occupied Kashmir), plebiscite, article 370 came into existence which is the root cause of the dispute.
My dear friend your efforts to make certain events look insignificant by blaming someone else for some else’s crime makes me think that I am speaking to an hard core separatist. Your claim on the conspiracy by Mr. Jag Mohan seems illogical by any standards of analysis. I am a citizen of this country and I know how the governors function in the states and the authority that they can exercise over the state. Kashmir is a state which enjoys article 370 which no other Indian state enjoys. Article 370 makes Kashmir a more fragile state to handle from the Indian perspective.
Tehseen Is the Indian army made of hooligans who don’t understand the basics and the significance of a political frame of a nation or is it made of barbarians who don’t understand what human rights violation is, the very existence of article 370 is in itself proves what the position of kashmir region is in the present day geo political setting.
Tehseen Is the Indian army made of hooligans who don’t understand the basics and the significance of a political frame of a nation or is it made of barbarians who don’t understand what human rights violation is, the very existence of article 370 is in itself proves what the position of kashmir region is in the present day geo political setting.
Take a look at this a perspective of an outsider who is neither an Indian nor an Islamist :
"As per the statement of US Congressman Joe Wilson, beginning in 1989, mosques in Kashmir declared jihad and blared warnings from loudspeakers to the Hindus that they were infidels and had to leave Kashmir. He further says that "From 1989-1990, Islamists began a terror campaign to drive Hindus from Kashmir". Some people have noted that some Kashmiri Muslims were tolerant of minorities, but since partition, most Kashmiri Muslims have adopted a more conservative approach to Islam, and since 1989, a more militant and fundamentalist approach. By the turn of the last century, only 6.4% of Kashmiri were Hindus. The US Department of State reports that, according to the Indian National Human Rights Commission, the Kashmiri Pandits population in Jammu and Kashmir dropped from 15 percent in 1941 to 0.1 percent as of 2006 "
"As per the statement of US Congressman Joe Wilson, beginning in 1989, mosques in Kashmir declared jihad and blared warnings from loudspeakers to the Hindus that they were infidels and had to leave Kashmir. He further says that "From 1989-1990, Islamists began a terror campaign to drive Hindus from Kashmir". Some people have noted that some Kashmiri Muslims were tolerant of minorities, but since partition, most Kashmiri Muslims have adopted a more conservative approach to Islam, and since 1989, a more militant and fundamentalist approach. By the turn of the last century, only 6.4% of Kashmiri were Hindus. The US Department of State reports that, according to the Indian National Human Rights Commission, the Kashmiri Pandits population in Jammu and Kashmir dropped from 15 percent in 1941 to 0.1 percent as of 2006 "
I don’t deny the fact that human rights violations have happened within the kashmir region, and people with in the army who put the entire Indian army and the country to shame have been taken to task but the figures that you have come up with seems exaggerated especially the number of Muslims killed and the rape victims figure considering that the Indian army has excellent reputation worldwide for committing much less atrocities. That’s one of the reasons why the Indian army is in big demand for peace keeping missions.
Tehseen you seem to be a believer of theory of karma “what you give is what you get” quite rightly so according to your own belief what’s happening to Muslims in Kashmir is what the Muslim rulers did to the kashmiri pandits and to the people who belonged to other religion starting from 13th century, I hate to bring in such an analogy to the fore but your way of justifying the violence perpetrated by the hard core fundamentalist also called as terrorists just put’s me off - pardon me if I had hurt you.
Tehseen the very usage of the name Kashmir is a problem, the pre-independence kingdom of Kashmir is now 7 regions. China got 2 - aksai chin and shaksgam valley (technically a part of northern areas). Pakistan got 2 - "azad" kashmir/muzaffarabad area and the northern areas (gilgit, baltistan etc). India got 3 - ladakh, Jammu and the Kashmir valley, I would want to know if people in the kashmir valley are fighting for a Kashmir which existed pre independence or they are just fighting for the Kashmir which is under Indian occupation, if the insurgency has happened only in the Indian occupied kashmir region I have a set of question for you.
Why did the insurgency start?
What have the Kashmir’s gained out of insurgency?
What did they hope to gain?
Why did the insurgency start 42 years after acceding to India?
Why did the locals not rise in rebellion in 1965 as the Pakistanis expected them to?
Why does the start of the insurgency coincide with the end of the war in Afghanistan? Why not before? Why not significantly after?
What percentage of the Kashmiri Muslims were actively involved when the insurgency began?
What motivated the people who instigated the idea of azad Kashmir?
And to all these questions my friend I know you will have only one answer
Why did the insurgency start?
What have the Kashmir’s gained out of insurgency?
What did they hope to gain?
Why did the insurgency start 42 years after acceding to India?
Why did the locals not rise in rebellion in 1965 as the Pakistanis expected them to?
Why does the start of the insurgency coincide with the end of the war in Afghanistan? Why not before? Why not significantly after?
What percentage of the Kashmiri Muslims were actively involved when the insurgency began?
What motivated the people who instigated the idea of azad Kashmir?
And to all these questions my friend I know you will have only one answer
“OPPRESSION BY THE INIDAN ARMY”, “AZADI HI HAMARI MAKSAD”, this answer would sound ridiculous if you had answered all those questions truthfully.
Let’s just face the fact if it was not for the UN mandate on plebiscite and article 370 Kashmir would have been another Tamilnadu or Maharashtra, So having said that the events that made the history were nothing but a huge blunder which has given rise to the present uncomfortable situation with in the region.
I would also like to look at other facts too; - it is only the Kashmir valley which has dreams of independence. Ladakh and Jammu have become an integral part of India.
I also know the fact that Kashmiris desire to be independent is not new, it has been the case since the Indian and Pakistani independence but the new thing is the agitations and terrorism. Well my friend you need to take a look at the maps of Pakistan and china to know their real intentions on Kashmir and the map is on no propaganda site, its Pakistan Governments official website, it’s their Official intention. I know the fact that the Indian map too seems to carry the same intention of what Pakistan and china carry on Kashmir, but the fact is, in the current geopolitical setup, it is just not feasible to realize the dream of a “independent Kashmir”. Kashmir is sitting at the junction of India, Pakistan and china and it does not have the wherewithal to resist an invasion from any one of them. Historically Kashmiris took cognizance of this fact and stayed with India and not Pakistan as an autonomous region., also their faith (more importantly, sheikh abdulla's faith) in the secular nature of India trumped any dreams of joining pakistan - which sponsored the 1947 invasion that devolved into loot, rape and what not. If by god’s will Kashmir becomes an independent nation Pakistan will annex Kashmir, Kashmir was not able to defend itself in 1947, nor would it be able to defend itself against Pakistan in future.
Let’s just face the fact if it was not for the UN mandate on plebiscite and article 370 Kashmir would have been another Tamilnadu or Maharashtra, So having said that the events that made the history were nothing but a huge blunder which has given rise to the present uncomfortable situation with in the region.
I would also like to look at other facts too; - it is only the Kashmir valley which has dreams of independence. Ladakh and Jammu have become an integral part of India.
I also know the fact that Kashmiris desire to be independent is not new, it has been the case since the Indian and Pakistani independence but the new thing is the agitations and terrorism. Well my friend you need to take a look at the maps of Pakistan and china to know their real intentions on Kashmir and the map is on no propaganda site, its Pakistan Governments official website, it’s their Official intention. I know the fact that the Indian map too seems to carry the same intention of what Pakistan and china carry on Kashmir, but the fact is, in the current geopolitical setup, it is just not feasible to realize the dream of a “independent Kashmir”. Kashmir is sitting at the junction of India, Pakistan and china and it does not have the wherewithal to resist an invasion from any one of them. Historically Kashmiris took cognizance of this fact and stayed with India and not Pakistan as an autonomous region., also their faith (more importantly, sheikh abdulla's faith) in the secular nature of India trumped any dreams of joining pakistan - which sponsored the 1947 invasion that devolved into loot, rape and what not. If by god’s will Kashmir becomes an independent nation Pakistan will annex Kashmir, Kashmir was not able to defend itself in 1947, nor would it be able to defend itself against Pakistan in future.
In the present geo- political setting, and when the world is moving towards a Globalized economy If the recent incidents pertaining to south Ossetia can happen then anything can happen with an independent Kashmir. The only possible solution that I see is, an effort should be made to make Pakistan vacate The POK. Pre-1947 war borders should be restored before allowing plebiscite to take place; this would actually bring out the real intentions of Pakistan and china into the fore.
Your views and statistics about the ability of Kashmir to be self sufficient is debatable, if at all it becomes independent by gods will. Tehseen your belief that tourism will bring in all the money that’s required for each and every Kashmiri is only a hope, I would only be more than happy if what you are saying is true. In one of the official records before militancy ravaged the valley, tourism just accounted for 15 % of states revenue. Let me give out some statistics, these statistics are not based on any Indian organizations research.
1. The GDP of the state is 4.5 % while the rest of the country grew at 6.5%. but Still the state has a very low poverty rate compared to other Indian states.
2. The real estate prices in Kashmir region has been growing continuously.
3. There are 21,000 cars in Srinagar alone a five fold increase from 1990.
4. There were 560 private schools in the valley seven years ago and now there are 1360 .
5. The state, which has little industry of its own, depends heavily on central government financing, with the valley alone, home to 5.5 million people, getting $812 million in 2007. Ninety percent of that aid is in grants, while most other Indian states get 70 percent of their aid in loans.
6. Most of the money goes to ward’s government payroll that consumes two-thirds of the state's total budget of $1.2 billion. The valley's total bureaucracy, including state, central government and daily wage workers, is estimated at 350,000 people -- about one in every 17 residents.
7. The maximum money circulating within the Kashmir valley is INDIAN government’s money.
8.Syed Ali Shah Gilani, a pro-Pakistan leader now in detention, who reported about $350 in monthly income on his tax filing but was found to have $30,000 in cash, five video cameras, 14 servants, three cars and a flat in Delhi.
9.The money to the militant groups is channeled through the jammu and kashmir banks, Since militancy began, its deposits have grown from $458 million to $2.29 billion.
10. Kashmir is extracting royal tribute from the rest of India. Strangely reminiscent of what the British did during colonial times. That is, there is massive funds flow from the Centre to J&K. Look at the magnitude of that largesse: The following table would show about money that has flowed into Kashmir in the past years which helped the kashmir region to prosper
Fiscal Year ------------------Amount (Rs, in Crores)
1991 --------------------------1,244
1992 --------------------------1,393
1993 --------------------------1,569
1994 --------------------------1,820
1995 --------------------------2,635
1996 --------------------------2,627
1997 --------------------------3,208
1998
1999 --------------------------3,833
2000------------------------- 4,604
2001------------------------- 4,437
2002------------------------- 4,578.
Fiscal Year ------------------Amount (Rs, in Crores)
1991 --------------------------1,244
1992 --------------------------1,393
1993 --------------------------1,569
1994 --------------------------1,820
1995 --------------------------2,635
1996 --------------------------2,627
1997 --------------------------3,208
1998
1999 --------------------------3,833
2000------------------------- 4,604
2001------------------------- 4,437
2002------------------------- 4,578.
Now talking about the recent bomb blasts, you say that Kashmir is not even remotely related to it, pardon me you must be someone who doesn’t understand the implications of one geo political event leading to a chain of events. Terrorism in India was never so violent and rampant until insurgency and militancy started to gain its foot hold in Kashmir. These terrorists who claim themselves to be fighters of a cause are blatant liars and are nothing more than cowards. If they are brave enough as they proclaim themselves to be they would actually be fighting against the policy makers in the government. If at all they want to make their stand clear by blowing up something or somebody they should be blowing up the MP’s, and Ministers and not an ordinary kid playing in the playground or some ordinary Indian who just carries on with his harmless life. They won’t do that because their real intentions is to disintegrate India and not being a catalysts in bringing about a solution to the long standing kashmir dispute, more over their intentions of disintegrating India just requires killing an unassuming ordinary Indian and it is much easier than targeting a high profile policy maker with in the government.
Having said all this, as an ordinary citizen of this great nation founded on the principles of ahmisa I don’t want to see another child or an ordinary Indian or Kashmiri getting killed no matter what in the name of Allah, or Maksad, or Riyasat, or Azadi. I don’t want to see blood flowing in the streets in the name of religion or ideologies or Land.
Last but not least
“Religion is the boundary within which humanity has suffered for so long and it will continue to suffer unless that boundary ceases to exist”
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